In discussions with various people on the recent passing of Proposition 8 in California, I've seen numerous opinions, most very strong. Proposition 8, as a reminder, overturned a Judicial move to allow gay marriage in California. Prop 8 was a popular vote issue, bent on taking the judicial decision back down. And it did.
I've heard some people say, "Well, it's the majority, and the majority wins." These are usually the religious folks who are okay with the fact that the Mormon church funded most of the scare ads that fueled voter turnout to support Proposition 8.
I've heard other people say, "We need to do anything with love. Be nice. Spoon feed the ignorant. Learn their bible and talk to them about it.
But honestly, has that done much up until now?
The issue here is that, when people are stuck in a certain mindset, as is the case with the people who oppose the civil rights of the gay community, we don't have time to "feed them with a spoon and a fork" any more than being nicey nice to the slaveowners made them want to give up slavery. They justified it by the Bible. Jesus Himself said that slaves were to obey their masters.
In the same way, while we can point out people's errors in interpreting their own scriptures, and while it does actually help to KNOW said scriptures, the focus needs to be on the LAW. Abolitionists didn't help end slavery by saying, "Oh dear Mr. Slaveowner, please, in all human kindness, let those people go." No, they did it by being activists. By shouting down the dissenters and by appealing to constitutional law.
The law is not always upheld by Popular Vote. Hence the reason we HAVE a judicial branch of government. That is why what was done in California is so reprehensible. It allowed popular vote to overturn the very consitution that is supposed to protect the rights of individual citizens.
Civil rights activists, including Martin Luther King, believed in peaceful protest. But they believed in PROTEST. And violence sometimes came of those protests. They did not say, "Please white majority, won't you out of the kindness of your hearts, allow us equal rights?" No, they sat at lunch counters they weren't allowed to sit at, and rode busses they weren't supposed to ride in the front of, and marched in protest.
There comes a time when we need to "speak softly and carry a big stick." I rarely see a point anymore in trying to appeal to extreme fundamentalists through scripture reading. They're just going to have to be mad when we appeal to the LAW, which states in effect that they are not allowed to enforce their religious beliefs on people through government. If they don't like it, well tough freakin cookies. Sometimes we need to stop pandering and just tell it like it is. sometimes we need to STOP speaking softly and start shouting. Growing enough numbers to finally be able to shout down the bigots can actually work better than kind discourse.
Sunday, November 30, 2008
Sunday, November 23, 2008
The Logic of Christianity
When I was growing up in the church, especially as an adult, I began to ask a lot of questions. I would ask one, and probably get an answer, which wouldn't really answer my question fully, but would lead to another question. The person I was answering would be increasingly frustrated until they would finally just get annoyed and tell me how rebellious I was, or they would hint that I was just purposely being difficult.
I wondered if it was my presentation until I heard another person talking about it on a great forum I've been to, De-conversion.com.
He said he asked a lot of questions, too, until
Another person, in responding, said that you have to understand something. In the Christian mindset:
I thik that sums it up.
I wondered if it was my presentation until I heard another person talking about it on a great forum I've been to, De-conversion.com.
He said he asked a lot of questions, too, until
"...they essentially threw up their hands and assumed I must just be acting willfully difficult."
Another person, in responding, said that you have to understand something. In the Christian mindset:
Christianity has all the answers to the questions that are important. If we do not have the answer, it must not be important. If it is not important, then making it important is divisive. Divisiveness is wrong. Therefore asking questions we do not have the answers to is wrong.
I thik that sums it up.
Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Why to Atheists "dislike" liberal Spiritual Types?
On a forum I frequented a lot at one time, and still drop in on occasionally, someone asked me, "So Kristen, why do some atheists seem to dislike LIBERAL theists?"
I think it happens for the same reason that every single "group" is critical of every group that isn't of the same mind. Come on, as self-professed "mystics" or theists, many have obvious dislike for atheists and fundamentalists alike. Why?
I am an atheist that USED to be a fundie and then a liberal theist. So I get it. I know that I experieinced what I thought was God. I felt it. I believed it. I laid on my face for hours and days in prayer and fasting. I believed that my beliefs were the right ones, and I had experiences that I thought were of God. And so I get it in many ways, though you and other theists might think that i don't, because I didn't hang onto it (past age 37).
I think that many atheists are critical of liberal theists because they think that more liberal theists are hanging onto something that they now KNOW not to be real...to be just as much myth as Homer's works, whereas a fundamentalist is a literalist.
In other words, a fundie believes that all the words of the bible are real. That seems...well, logical. He believes this book to be all real, all inspired by God, even if most others think that's extremist and crazy. A theist who is more liberal sees the Bible as something that is more of a "moral code" written by men but not literal. As was my experience and that of many others, one begins to think, if it is not literal, what makes it God at all? What is the evidence that there is any god behind any of it?
So, I suppose that many atheists wonder how a theist can be liberal and still believe that there is a god at all, because if it is not literal, there is no proof that any words of a person who believes they have heard a god are real. I think many athiests at least have some respect for fundamentalists for that, but lose respect for "liberal theists" because they seem to pick and choose what to believe depending on their circumstances, whether there is evidence for that belief or not, and that requires even more faith than the literalist has.
I have worked in the mental health field for most of my adult life. I grew up with those who were mentally ill, from paranoid schizophrenia to mild depression - the whole spectrum. The sicker someone was, the more they relied on a particular belief system to get them through. Many of the people I have worked with and known have grasped onto some kind of faith to get them through, whether it be Christianity, or Buddhism, or Ba'hai faith.
Again, I am not saying I believe this, or subscribe to the same thoughts. I am saying that I know a lot of atheists now (I even belong to an atheist social group in my area, so have studied some of the thought) who DO think this way. To the atheist, the fundamentalist at least has a specific set of beliefs rather than a more liberal view, which doesn't seem to have any specific set, but appears to pick and choose the good things, and discard the bad, rather than pick something more solid.
We all have our biases, based on our life experiences. My life experiences to this point say that if there is a god, he (or she, or it) is a sadistic bastard (or bitch), and I would not want to serve that type of God anyway. To me, if there is a god who has ANY power at all, no child would be molested, or beaten, or harmed intentionally in any way. Otherwise, any god is just a castrated figurehead. I can pray to this god, hope in him/her, cry out for guidance, but innocent people will still be harmed, homosexuals will still be consigned to hell, people will be murdered, children will be molested, raped, abused...where is this straw man god who can't even display enough power to save the children? And any homily that attempts to explain all this away is just that - a homily - words that mean absolutely NOTHING, no matter how deep they seem.
What does the liberal mystic say to that, except that God is "other" - and does not involve him/her/itself in those matters?
But in that case, God, no matter how mystical, no matter how kind, and loving, and deep - is a god without BALLS. Who will not or cannot even save a child from harm. That kind of sadistic bastard I will not serve. And if God is something other - something that is more mystical and does not concern itself with those types of things - what's the point of serving that? So I can be all "deep" and use my high IQ to tell people of those interesting deep and mystical qualities that don't concern themselves with these earthly things?
Ennnhhhh. I won't say what I want to say about that kind of god, because I dont want to offend TOO awfully much. It does no good.
But until someone shows me a god who can take care of those "small" things, like explaining in any real way why it allows a child to be harmed physically or sexually, or any other of the atrocities I see on a daily basis, and gives proof as to why that needs to happen and whatever gods are out there are just "observers"...and you can give me GOOD reason why, then I'm not buying it.
I'd rather be an atheist than a believer of any type, because I will not serve a sadist in any way. If that gives me a room in some lower dimension or in hell itself, so be it. God (ANY god) has a lot of shit to answer for. THAT is what most of the atheists I've talked to boil down to (though I don't presume to speak for any of them). Why in the world would they want to serve such a straw man, who claims to be God but does nothing about MAN?
Yes, most atheists have huge concerns for the environment. Many are vegetarians and have great feelings for animals and the torture we inflict on them (I'm still a carnivore, but less of one than I was once upon a time when I thought that God gave us those animals to eat, and didn't want to think about how they were treated). Most atheists want the next generation to be BETTER than they are, even if they don't beleive it. See, they have no afterlife to rely on - they have only this life, but still many of them, rather than being hedonists, strive for a better future for generations after.
They're people. people who just simply can no longer understand any type of god who lets so many innocents suffer. A god who is pro-war, or even who is a peacenik but has no power to save anyone from their CURRENT suffering, should not be considered a god at all.
I guess that's why they are critical of liberal theists. It is why I am critical myself. After all this, I know that I am critical of theists. Not them personally, but critical of how they can maintain belief at all in such a powerless power.
I think it happens for the same reason that every single "group" is critical of every group that isn't of the same mind. Come on, as self-professed "mystics" or theists, many have obvious dislike for atheists and fundamentalists alike. Why?
I am an atheist that USED to be a fundie and then a liberal theist. So I get it. I know that I experieinced what I thought was God. I felt it. I believed it. I laid on my face for hours and days in prayer and fasting. I believed that my beliefs were the right ones, and I had experiences that I thought were of God. And so I get it in many ways, though you and other theists might think that i don't, because I didn't hang onto it (past age 37).
I think that many atheists are critical of liberal theists because they think that more liberal theists are hanging onto something that they now KNOW not to be real...to be just as much myth as Homer's works, whereas a fundamentalist is a literalist.
In other words, a fundie believes that all the words of the bible are real. That seems...well, logical. He believes this book to be all real, all inspired by God, even if most others think that's extremist and crazy. A theist who is more liberal sees the Bible as something that is more of a "moral code" written by men but not literal. As was my experience and that of many others, one begins to think, if it is not literal, what makes it God at all? What is the evidence that there is any god behind any of it?
So, I suppose that many atheists wonder how a theist can be liberal and still believe that there is a god at all, because if it is not literal, there is no proof that any words of a person who believes they have heard a god are real. I think many athiests at least have some respect for fundamentalists for that, but lose respect for "liberal theists" because they seem to pick and choose what to believe depending on their circumstances, whether there is evidence for that belief or not, and that requires even more faith than the literalist has.
I have worked in the mental health field for most of my adult life. I grew up with those who were mentally ill, from paranoid schizophrenia to mild depression - the whole spectrum. The sicker someone was, the more they relied on a particular belief system to get them through. Many of the people I have worked with and known have grasped onto some kind of faith to get them through, whether it be Christianity, or Buddhism, or Ba'hai faith.
Again, I am not saying I believe this, or subscribe to the same thoughts. I am saying that I know a lot of atheists now (I even belong to an atheist social group in my area, so have studied some of the thought) who DO think this way. To the atheist, the fundamentalist at least has a specific set of beliefs rather than a more liberal view, which doesn't seem to have any specific set, but appears to pick and choose the good things, and discard the bad, rather than pick something more solid.
We all have our biases, based on our life experiences. My life experiences to this point say that if there is a god, he (or she, or it) is a sadistic bastard (or bitch), and I would not want to serve that type of God anyway. To me, if there is a god who has ANY power at all, no child would be molested, or beaten, or harmed intentionally in any way. Otherwise, any god is just a castrated figurehead. I can pray to this god, hope in him/her, cry out for guidance, but innocent people will still be harmed, homosexuals will still be consigned to hell, people will be murdered, children will be molested, raped, abused...where is this straw man god who can't even display enough power to save the children? And any homily that attempts to explain all this away is just that - a homily - words that mean absolutely NOTHING, no matter how deep they seem.
What does the liberal mystic say to that, except that God is "other" - and does not involve him/her/itself in those matters?
But in that case, God, no matter how mystical, no matter how kind, and loving, and deep - is a god without BALLS. Who will not or cannot even save a child from harm. That kind of sadistic bastard I will not serve. And if God is something other - something that is more mystical and does not concern itself with those types of things - what's the point of serving that? So I can be all "deep" and use my high IQ to tell people of those interesting deep and mystical qualities that don't concern themselves with these earthly things?
Ennnhhhh. I won't say what I want to say about that kind of god, because I dont want to offend TOO awfully much. It does no good.
But until someone shows me a god who can take care of those "small" things, like explaining in any real way why it allows a child to be harmed physically or sexually, or any other of the atrocities I see on a daily basis, and gives proof as to why that needs to happen and whatever gods are out there are just "observers"...and you can give me GOOD reason why, then I'm not buying it.
I'd rather be an atheist than a believer of any type, because I will not serve a sadist in any way. If that gives me a room in some lower dimension or in hell itself, so be it. God (ANY god) has a lot of shit to answer for. THAT is what most of the atheists I've talked to boil down to (though I don't presume to speak for any of them). Why in the world would they want to serve such a straw man, who claims to be God but does nothing about MAN?
Yes, most atheists have huge concerns for the environment. Many are vegetarians and have great feelings for animals and the torture we inflict on them (I'm still a carnivore, but less of one than I was once upon a time when I thought that God gave us those animals to eat, and didn't want to think about how they were treated). Most atheists want the next generation to be BETTER than they are, even if they don't beleive it. See, they have no afterlife to rely on - they have only this life, but still many of them, rather than being hedonists, strive for a better future for generations after.
They're people. people who just simply can no longer understand any type of god who lets so many innocents suffer. A god who is pro-war, or even who is a peacenik but has no power to save anyone from their CURRENT suffering, should not be considered a god at all.
I guess that's why they are critical of liberal theists. It is why I am critical myself. After all this, I know that I am critical of theists. Not them personally, but critical of how they can maintain belief at all in such a powerless power.
Tuesday, November 11, 2008
New God Kills Em Video Game!
No, to my knowledge there isn't one, but just imagine it! I was watching a friend play a new Auto Stealing, Hooker beating game the other day, and thought, that's nothing compared to a "Kill 'em All and let God Sort 'Em Out" video game. We know that all those parents hate for their children to be playing other violent video games, or listening to violent music, but they sure want their kids to read the bible. This game would spark their interest.
Think about it. You play different kings, shepherds, prophets, judges, and eventually God, and it is your job to determine who is "chosen" and who is not, and slaughter the people that aren't. Imagine this scene:
You start as a small Village leader and you hear that a small group of worthless rabble in the neighboring village is encouraging other villagers to go astray and worship foreign gods. You must follow the mandate of the Lord to get to the next level:
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Cool - you don't just get to slaughter pimps and ho's, but you get to kill everybody, down to the last baby and even the livestock. Then, you get a big bonfire at the end. When you finish that level, God will be merciful to you and give you more power for the next level, where you'll be a PROPHET.
In this level, you are a Prophet of the Lord, strong and muscular, and wandering the wilderness and such. Think Riddick in a loincloth. Then a bunch of kids start following your character and calling you "baldy" - you have to figure out how to slaughter those kids for teasing you the way they did. If you know scripture, you'll get it, otherwise, you'll die of shame and have to repeat the level:
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
See how that works? Not only do you have fun, but you learn how God operates in the Bible!
In this game, after each level, you become a higher level character, until eventually, you are GOD. In the final level, being God, you get the biggest slaughters of all. More blood and guts than any level, because you get to kill pretty much everyone. You kill all homosexuals, all fornicators, all witches, all pagans, all people who do not listen to the spiritual authorities, all atheists, all women who are not virgins when they marry, all fortune tellers, any kid who hits his or her dad (guess it's okay to beat mom, so watch out, you don't want to lose points by killing the kid who is hitting his mom), anyone who blasphemes, any tens of thousands who look into the Ark of the Covenant (that's a cool graphics section, way better than Indiana Jones' take on it), any man who tries to keep the Ark of the Covenant from falling (even though he was trying to do a good deed), and all liars.
It's great! I can't wait to play it, can you?
Think about it. You play different kings, shepherds, prophets, judges, and eventually God, and it is your job to determine who is "chosen" and who is not, and slaughter the people that aren't. Imagine this scene:
You start as a small Village leader and you hear that a small group of worthless rabble in the neighboring village is encouraging other villagers to go astray and worship foreign gods. You must follow the mandate of the Lord to get to the next level:
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Cool - you don't just get to slaughter pimps and ho's, but you get to kill everybody, down to the last baby and even the livestock. Then, you get a big bonfire at the end. When you finish that level, God will be merciful to you and give you more power for the next level, where you'll be a PROPHET.
In this level, you are a Prophet of the Lord, strong and muscular, and wandering the wilderness and such. Think Riddick in a loincloth. Then a bunch of kids start following your character and calling you "baldy" - you have to figure out how to slaughter those kids for teasing you the way they did. If you know scripture, you'll get it, otherwise, you'll die of shame and have to repeat the level:
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
See how that works? Not only do you have fun, but you learn how God operates in the Bible!
In this game, after each level, you become a higher level character, until eventually, you are GOD. In the final level, being God, you get the biggest slaughters of all. More blood and guts than any level, because you get to kill pretty much everyone. You kill all homosexuals, all fornicators, all witches, all pagans, all people who do not listen to the spiritual authorities, all atheists, all women who are not virgins when they marry, all fortune tellers, any kid who hits his or her dad (guess it's okay to beat mom, so watch out, you don't want to lose points by killing the kid who is hitting his mom), anyone who blasphemes, any tens of thousands who look into the Ark of the Covenant (that's a cool graphics section, way better than Indiana Jones' take on it), any man who tries to keep the Ark of the Covenant from falling (even though he was trying to do a good deed), and all liars.
It's great! I can't wait to play it, can you?
Tuesday, November 4, 2008
Oh, the Irony
This made me laugh as well as shake my head in wonder:
Laying hands on a golden cow? Well, bull anyway.
Laying hands on a golden cow? Well, bull anyway.
Why Do Christians Want to Protect Israel?
A friend posted an interesting clip of Bill Maher on a message board that got me thinking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPWIibPNAAI
A lot of talk has come out of the Republican camp (especially Sarah Palin) about protecting Israel. Bill's comments are interesting - are Christians not really noticing that they want to protect Israel but that the Jews will still go to hell if they don't become Christians?
Bill makes a point, but the others did as well. I alwasy felt a love for the Jews when in the church, but there was a "cognitive dissonance" in this area for me when I was in conservative Christianity. Part of that is that there are at least two predominant "camps" in protestant Christianity regarding Israel and the Jews.
One is based in "replacement theology." In this belief, Christians have basically replaced the Jews as God's chosen people, based on the fact that the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, and Christians accepted him. To these people, Israel is as was described on the youtube clip by Bill Maher. Israel, to them, is where the last battle will be, so Israel is to be protected, and any Jew that accepts Jesus as Messiah will become part of the chosen again, but any Jew who doesn't - well, they're going to burn with the rest of the heathens.
The other basic theology is that the Jews are still God's chosen, and have a large place in the end days. The predominant belief here is that the bible says "God changes not," so the Jews could not have been replaced, as God chose them initially. Chistians are basically "piggybacking" on the Jews' already "chosen" status. The predominant belief here is that the 144,000 male virgins of the end days that go around preaching during the Tribulation period will be Jews, from the 12 tribes of Israel. These men will have a profound impact on the rest of the Jewish nation, thereby winning them all to Christ.
Now, I have oversimplified these explantions of the two camps, but there is the general breakdown. In both camps, though, Israel plays a predominant role. In the first, Jews are somehow "lesser" than Christians, but many will come to believe in Jesus during the tribulation, and therefore they will be okay. But the ones who don't will fry like everyone else. In the second, Jews are almost elevated to near-godlike status themselves, and Christians must protect them at all costs.
Neither of these, though, answers the question to the Christian of where all the Jews who have died before the tribulation go. This was one of the things that got me thinking about what kind of God I was serving. Think about it (I did, and it bothered me greatly for years before I left the faith). A Jew, who has faithfully served God from birth, keeping pure, praying, etc., but not knowing Jesus as savior...is captured by Nazis and sent to a death camp - he or she lives through torture, hell, etc., and then dies in a death camp, never having turned back on God, but not having accepted Jesus...fries in hell for all eternity??? What a sadistic and selfish god that is! How very childish of a god to be that big a baby, to say, "If you don't accept my son, it doesn't matter how much you pray, how much you love others, how morally you live your life, you're going to fry for eternity in hell."
Blech.
If Christians would just pay attention to those views on Jews, and start doing some critical thinking of their own, they might begin to feel that cognitive dissonance as well. But critical thinking skills aren't exactly the norm in conservative Christianity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPWIibPNAAI
A lot of talk has come out of the Republican camp (especially Sarah Palin) about protecting Israel. Bill's comments are interesting - are Christians not really noticing that they want to protect Israel but that the Jews will still go to hell if they don't become Christians?
Bill makes a point, but the others did as well. I alwasy felt a love for the Jews when in the church, but there was a "cognitive dissonance" in this area for me when I was in conservative Christianity. Part of that is that there are at least two predominant "camps" in protestant Christianity regarding Israel and the Jews.
One is based in "replacement theology." In this belief, Christians have basically replaced the Jews as God's chosen people, based on the fact that the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, and Christians accepted him. To these people, Israel is as was described on the youtube clip by Bill Maher. Israel, to them, is where the last battle will be, so Israel is to be protected, and any Jew that accepts Jesus as Messiah will become part of the chosen again, but any Jew who doesn't - well, they're going to burn with the rest of the heathens.
The other basic theology is that the Jews are still God's chosen, and have a large place in the end days. The predominant belief here is that the bible says "God changes not," so the Jews could not have been replaced, as God chose them initially. Chistians are basically "piggybacking" on the Jews' already "chosen" status. The predominant belief here is that the 144,000 male virgins of the end days that go around preaching during the Tribulation period will be Jews, from the 12 tribes of Israel. These men will have a profound impact on the rest of the Jewish nation, thereby winning them all to Christ.
Now, I have oversimplified these explantions of the two camps, but there is the general breakdown. In both camps, though, Israel plays a predominant role. In the first, Jews are somehow "lesser" than Christians, but many will come to believe in Jesus during the tribulation, and therefore they will be okay. But the ones who don't will fry like everyone else. In the second, Jews are almost elevated to near-godlike status themselves, and Christians must protect them at all costs.
Neither of these, though, answers the question to the Christian of where all the Jews who have died before the tribulation go. This was one of the things that got me thinking about what kind of God I was serving. Think about it (I did, and it bothered me greatly for years before I left the faith). A Jew, who has faithfully served God from birth, keeping pure, praying, etc., but not knowing Jesus as savior...is captured by Nazis and sent to a death camp - he or she lives through torture, hell, etc., and then dies in a death camp, never having turned back on God, but not having accepted Jesus...fries in hell for all eternity??? What a sadistic and selfish god that is! How very childish of a god to be that big a baby, to say, "If you don't accept my son, it doesn't matter how much you pray, how much you love others, how morally you live your life, you're going to fry for eternity in hell."
Blech.
If Christians would just pay attention to those views on Jews, and start doing some critical thinking of their own, they might begin to feel that cognitive dissonance as well. But critical thinking skills aren't exactly the norm in conservative Christianity.
Monday, November 3, 2008
The Doctrine of Fear
Growing up in a fundamentalist Christian environment, one of the things that stood out very clearly to me was an intense fear of hell. Even in those few churches we attended that focused more on love, hell hung like a pall over every decision you made, every thought you had.
I remember when I was seven or eight, I would sit in church week after week, and hear about the suffering of hell. People crying and burning and never getting relief. I would think about the sins I'd committed through the week, and feel like I needed to run forward at the end of every week's service to prostrate myself before God, so I wouldn't be damned for eternity (I was always a bit dramatic, even in my fears). Once, at age 14, I lay awake all night long, fearing that Jesus was going to return for the church, and everyone would disappear but me. I stayed awake, thinking that I'd see him and beg him to take me along even though I was completely unworthy.
Religion, as we know, perpetuates fear in its followers, even when it is couched in love. Earlier in this blog, I talked about my mother, and her belief that Barack Obama is, if not THE antichrist, AN antichrist. She was so full of fear over this, yet just a couple of e-mails later talked of how much she felt loved by God, and how much she sees the love of God in scripture (I'm wondering if she just skips those parts of the Bible where God slaughters thousands for sometimes nothing more than one guy stealing a gold cup).
It is quite a dichotomy, and what finally led me to study further, until I'd studied my way right out of belief in God at all. Frankly, even if I did still believe God existed, I wouldn't want to serve him because I think he's kind of...well, an abusive, fussy asshole. It was the cognitive dissonance I experienced between being told of a God of love on the one hand, and then seeing a God that was not at all showing love to his people or anyone else in any real way.
Christian families had the same monetay problems that non-christians do (unless they're televangelists). Christian families have children who get molested, they have divorces (sometimes higher rates than the general population), diseases, and all manner of ills, just like the rest of us. For every Christian who says they experienced a miracle, there are 10 people of other religions who claim miracles as well.
It becomes obvious, no matter what the talk of love, that Christian belief and morality is ruled primarily by fear of hell. Many people think it is only fringe groups like Fred Phelps' Kansas church that pickets gay funerals, military funerals, and anything else that provides publicity. They scream hate and invective. Check out this article which interviews Phelps' son Nate to see the damage that kind of fear can cause (link)
But I did not attend the "crazy churches." I attended a normal, run of the mill Baptist church growing up, yet still came away knowing of the fear. After deconverting, it took several years to throw off those flashes of terror at the thought that hell could be real. That was the last battlefield in my mind related to religion. Richard Dawkins, renowned atheist, goes so far as to say it is a form of abuse, to raise people in this type of fear.
There are sites like this one all over the 'Net for people who have come out of religion and need the encouragement and support of others because they lived in such a world based on fear of a punishing god.
So much for a doctrine of love.
I remember when I was seven or eight, I would sit in church week after week, and hear about the suffering of hell. People crying and burning and never getting relief. I would think about the sins I'd committed through the week, and feel like I needed to run forward at the end of every week's service to prostrate myself before God, so I wouldn't be damned for eternity (I was always a bit dramatic, even in my fears). Once, at age 14, I lay awake all night long, fearing that Jesus was going to return for the church, and everyone would disappear but me. I stayed awake, thinking that I'd see him and beg him to take me along even though I was completely unworthy.
Religion, as we know, perpetuates fear in its followers, even when it is couched in love. Earlier in this blog, I talked about my mother, and her belief that Barack Obama is, if not THE antichrist, AN antichrist. She was so full of fear over this, yet just a couple of e-mails later talked of how much she felt loved by God, and how much she sees the love of God in scripture (I'm wondering if she just skips those parts of the Bible where God slaughters thousands for sometimes nothing more than one guy stealing a gold cup).
It is quite a dichotomy, and what finally led me to study further, until I'd studied my way right out of belief in God at all. Frankly, even if I did still believe God existed, I wouldn't want to serve him because I think he's kind of...well, an abusive, fussy asshole. It was the cognitive dissonance I experienced between being told of a God of love on the one hand, and then seeing a God that was not at all showing love to his people or anyone else in any real way.
Christian families had the same monetay problems that non-christians do (unless they're televangelists). Christian families have children who get molested, they have divorces (sometimes higher rates than the general population), diseases, and all manner of ills, just like the rest of us. For every Christian who says they experienced a miracle, there are 10 people of other religions who claim miracles as well.
It becomes obvious, no matter what the talk of love, that Christian belief and morality is ruled primarily by fear of hell. Many people think it is only fringe groups like Fred Phelps' Kansas church that pickets gay funerals, military funerals, and anything else that provides publicity. They scream hate and invective. Check out this article which interviews Phelps' son Nate to see the damage that kind of fear can cause (link)
But I did not attend the "crazy churches." I attended a normal, run of the mill Baptist church growing up, yet still came away knowing of the fear. After deconverting, it took several years to throw off those flashes of terror at the thought that hell could be real. That was the last battlefield in my mind related to religion. Richard Dawkins, renowned atheist, goes so far as to say it is a form of abuse, to raise people in this type of fear.
There are sites like this one all over the 'Net for people who have come out of religion and need the encouragement and support of others because they lived in such a world based on fear of a punishing god.
So much for a doctrine of love.
Less Angry, More Impact
As we have seen in this year's general election, the more angry a campaign seems to be, the more that particular candidate slips in the polls. People are tired of hearing bitter, angry arguments and want answers.
So what's a godless heathen to do? We are not evangelists. We're not out there doing our best to "witness" to religious folks and try to "turn them to the dark side." We simply want to live our lives and not be dictated to by religous folks who want our government to be Christian, instead of allowing religious/non-religious freedoms. For that, we will speak out.
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a fun way of protesting our government and educational institutions giving preference to religious people. It's a good start.
Recently, I've seen another campaign that I really like. Check out the London, England Atheist Bus Campaign. It's not angry, it gets the point across in a benign, tongue-in-cheek way, and it has impact.
I can't help but hope that we here in the United States will follow suit.
So what's a godless heathen to do? We are not evangelists. We're not out there doing our best to "witness" to religious folks and try to "turn them to the dark side." We simply want to live our lives and not be dictated to by religous folks who want our government to be Christian, instead of allowing religious/non-religious freedoms. For that, we will speak out.
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a fun way of protesting our government and educational institutions giving preference to religious people. It's a good start.
Recently, I've seen another campaign that I really like. Check out the London, England Atheist Bus Campaign. It's not angry, it gets the point across in a benign, tongue-in-cheek way, and it has impact.
I can't help but hope that we here in the United States will follow suit.
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